Collusion/Conspiracy - The Case is Building

User avatar
sef1268
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:38 am


I predict Trump will never be held accountable for anything. He'll skate on all of this, just as he has done his entire, worthless, pathetic and pampered life. I can't stand it.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:16 pm


I just typed a bunch & didn't submit it. I'll try to reconstruct it. I know it's long.

I figured the Barr letter would be slippery & slimy in it's use of language. But I needed a lawyer or two to explain so I watched mainly Ari Melber, a lawyer himself, on his show interviewing former federal prosecutors & other lawyers in a position to understand it. However, I don't see how the people of this country will understand what just went down.

First keep in mind any finding of criminality has to pass a very high bar, esp. in a pres. case i.e. lots & lots of good evidence.

Secondly, the "collusion" part of the investigation was limited strictly to interaction directly with the Russian gov't by Trump or Trump associates. For example, that leaves out Wiki links as an intermediary in this investigation, and lots of other questionable things.

Thirdly, Mueller punted the decision about obstruction to what should have been Congress, according to lawyers mentioned above, but Barr grabbed it and made the decision himself, of course without letting anyone see what he based that decision on.

That's the really scary part to me. Barr essentially applied for the job via a memo to Trump last summer stating his views about extensive presidential power & Trump installed him expecting him to do what he has just done - protect the president. And Barr is in charge of the entire department of justice.

There are 3 branches of gov't: judiciary (which includes supreme court, not under Barr's control), the presidency, and Congress. We have the House of representatives and state attorney general's holding the line against Trumpism. I don't know about the Supreme Court.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:34 pm


State branches of the DOJ (SDNY, etc.) are also targeting Trump, but Barr ultimately is their boss.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:11 pm


Read just a little bit of this to see how complicated the issues with Barr's letter are:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/unpacking-obstruction-justice-mystery-barr-letter

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:28 pm


Also see this about the collusion part of the letter:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-does-barr-letter-actually-say-about-collusion

"In fact, Barr’s letter quotes Special Counsel Robert Mueller as stating that the investigation “did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” Saying that the investigation did not establish that there was collusion is not the same thing as saying that the investigation established that there was no collusion. "

User avatar
GrannyJu1
Supporter in 2018

Post   » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:38 am


I'm with sef1268. Nothing will come from this, except frustration on our parts!

GPIG

Post   » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:26 pm


I agree GrannyJu. Unfortunately the cycle continues. I had such hope America would look at this debacle and change. It's not to be however, instead of looking to find some positive change we've dug in and doubled down on the same old tired, petty ways.

Bookfan, to explain why the TS Clearance issue is so big first it has to be understood what the intelligence community is like, how large and complicated an apparatus it is and just how much they do on a daily basis that we don't really see, on purpose.

I don't mean to be talking down and I'm no expert by any stretch. I had to have some need to know higher temp clearance at one point in my career due to a job I was preforming being stationed with a bunch of spooks, I was part of the security team and the need that security was very real. When I wasn't there, and that's not why the following happened but almost the entire team was killed, suicide bomber.

The presidents daily briefings come from spooks and spook work. It's everything, they are so good at what they do, the analysts, which are spooks to some level, field people etc, they are heavily committed to their work, heart and soul, they are true believers. They have to be because they don't really have lives outside working for the agencies and they protect their lifestyle and that of their comrades with their lives. They don't take clearance lightly. Knowing you were vetted or not is everything to them. It is a tedious, long process and can take well over a year. For that little shit Kushner to get that type clearance when their own people said he shouldn't have it means there are very serious things in his life that preclude him from getting it, it could be character flaws, ethical missteps, ways he could easily be bribed, he could have a drug or alcohol problem, any number of things. But it puts their fellows at great risk to open the door to someone who doesn't belong because once they are in, they are all the way in.

So if the president pushed it through, first of all they will know and secondly, he may never get actionable intelligence in real time again which puts the country at great risk.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:15 am


Very interesting GPIG. I don't feel talked down to at all.

rjespicer

Post   » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:10 pm


I have had a little bit of experience with lower level clearances through work and have been "negatively vetted" several times but other family members have had higher clearance where they dig deeper, including polygraph tests. The questions they ask are very personal and if you dont answer honestly they find out.
I had to fill out a form for No Such Agency, when one family member was vetted in the US.
It was interesting though that when ever I needed clearance in the UK for work mine would come through weeks ahead of anyone else as I had already been checked out when they vetted other family members.
As you say they take it really seriously and one family member didn't get US clearance because he answered the questions honestly despite being advised to not exactly lie but gloss over his answer to one of the questions.
My Dad was once confronted by an armed soldier on one site so he handed him his pass but the soldier ignored it and detained him. His CO gave him a balling out pointing out that my Dads clearance level was higher than his.

For work we used to get calls from customers called Mr Smith or Mr Jones who would give us a number to call them back on but would add that it would only be active for 2 days. Spooks indeed ;)

GPIG

Post   » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:21 pm


I look at things going on now and see this person yelling impeach this guy, and that guy yells brings up the other one on charges. On and on, round and round. Someone said nothing will become of it all and I agree. Not that it shouldn't it just won't. We went to war, a full fledged out and out war because of a bold faced lie.

I look back at some things in my life and it makes me sad. I remember being young and wanting to make a difference, Feeling I was joining the guys with the white hats, the good guys.

I was hunting the Jack of Clubs, General Al-Rawi head of Iraq Republican guard during the second gulf war and had been closing in. He was supposedly the guy who knew where the WMDs were. The funny thing was I was being tracked. I won't go into he ttech part but there all kids of GPS type technology we wear, put on vehicles etc. There is some real sophisticated grid mapped coordinate electronics that isn't GPS driven.

I knew I was being tracked because whenever I turned off my own systems they were turned back on remotely. It wasn't obvious, my tech buddy Como could tell (man were we a great team) Who would want to track the trackers? Someone who knew Al-Rawi had told a high level US security (a spook) representative months before the war began there were no WMDs in Iraq. After that, who lied? We don't know for sure but it was a lie and the guys tracking me were special forces guys, not SF guys like me and Como. They would have been Team 6 / Delta or other groups way beyond what we publicly talk about. What were they going to do with Al-Rawi? I would guess a bunch of Waterboarding at a black op site in another country that not even that country where what was happening.

We almost got him. I was rotated out of Iraq fast, never to return because I didn't buy into the program. I didn't believe we "were doing a good thing in Iraq" I din't believe it was for us to do a "good thing" It wasn't our country. In any event, that would be that we call a spook war. Created by spooks and covered up by spooks so no one knows who did what and no way to prove any of it. And all of themn are walking around free. How many of our kids were killed? Treason, high treason. How nanny Iraqi civilians? Murder.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:22 pm


I'm with you on that, GPIG. A while after we found out there were no WMD's & yellowcake business was a fraud, I was starting to think there were war crimes that needed to be prosecuted. Of course it never happened.

In addition an article from 2015( correct me if this is wrong GPIG):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden- ... 9e95edf01dc9

almost all of the leaders of the Islamic State are former Iraqi officers, including the members of its shadowy military and security committees, and the majority of its emirs and princes, according to Iraqis, Syrians and analysts who study the group.

One thing leads to another, like squeezing a tube of toothpaste.

User avatar
sef1268
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:26 pm


I just think there will be no stopping Trump, now. Constitution? What Constitution? He'll continue using and abusing his power to carry out all manner of illegal and unethical acts, with the full and certain knowledge that nothing whatsoever can or will be done about it.

Buckle up, folks. This guy has the potential to make Cheney look like a choir boy.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:42 pm


Buckle up indeed.

GPIG

Post   » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:51 pm


Bookfan that article was correct but is outdated now. The Iraqi guys who defected and gave ISIL (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) military organization, control; and discipline have opted out because ISIS is not interested in fighting to put them back in charge of Iraqi. Interestingly enough, another General, the King of Clubs: AL-Douri was Saddam's number 1 guy in the military. He defected and has been reported killed several times. He is still alive and up to no good.

Cheney is evil, Darth Vader in a suit

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:34 am


Always interesting getting inside (somewhat inside I assume) & up-to-date info, GPIG.

Ok guys. if Cheney is Darth Vader in a suit (very funny!), who is Luke Skywalker?

(**big blast of Star Wars opening music** to set the mood)

GPIG

Post   » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:55 pm


I should have added Not all of them, I suppose but Al-Douri has and he was a major one

rjespicer

Post   » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:08 pm


It Looks like someone was listening GPIG

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47776964

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:54 pm


I saw that story too rjespicer. Sure does look like someone was listening.

Thanks for linking to it.

User avatar
sef1268
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:23 pm


Wow.

GPIG

Post   » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:32 pm


It sure is serious enough, this is no trivial matter.

My guess for at least one of Kushner's issues is the attempted blackmailing, extortion or whatever it was that sent his father to prison and then cost Christie a job in the White House for doing his job as a US prosecutor. The kid had a hand in at least the Christie part if not some of the original crime.

Here's a link to an interesting article

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/01/jared-kushner-chris-christie-book

Post Reply
42 posts