Occasional blood in urine??? -- Gizmo's Thread

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countrygirl49
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Post   » Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:00 pm


Gizmo (and Panda) just recently turned 6 years old.

Gizmo’s average weight is (was?) around 1060 give or take 20 grams or so. Over the past two and a half weeks, she has dropped down to around 920-925. I was hand feeding her 2-3 times per day starting about 7/20 going through the last hand feeding yesterday morning due to the continual weight loss.

Yesterday morning she was 921 and yesterday evening she was 925. This morning she was 924. So, even though I felt inclined to hand feed, my husband and I figured it’s better not to stress her out with hand feeding because she has stabilized at that weight. I also don’t want her to become “dependent” on hand feeding and my husband suggested letting her “catch up.” So far so good.

Her poops continue to be much better as well--a few pretty soft ones sometimes in the evenings, but then they will go back to firmer and formed.

Praying she stays at her current weight or, even better, increases back up to her old weight. I’m glad she had a little extra “buffer.” If she loses again, I’m not sure whether to hand feed again or not—she seems to be eating very well on her own.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:12 pm


I wouldn't hand-feed for that at this point, but I would see a vet. That's a big weight loss in 2.5 weeks. Something is causing that, and just trying to feed her extra food isn't addressing it.

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countrygirl49
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Post   » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:20 pm


Thanks bpatters. Glad I'm doing the right thing with not hand feeding now that she is stabilized (even though at a much lower weight).

We had a vet appointment on the 11th for unrelated issues and she had really soft poops for the last 2.5 weeks, so I was in contact with the vet regarding that and took a poop sample in on 7/21. Diagnosis was Coccidia. The vet was concerned with the weight loss as well, but now that she is on antibiotics she is doing SO much better. I think age, having diarrhea and lack of appetite in those two and a half weeks was the main cause.

Per our vet's request, I will be reporting back to her tomorrow morning and we'll evaluate the next steps. I'm thinking antibiotics for a while longer to really kick the Coccidia.

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countrygirl49
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Post   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:34 pm


I have a call in to our vet, per her request to follow up today. I’m expecting her return call after hours (around 7:30pm).

Weight
Gizmo had lost a few grams yesterday evening, down to 918 and this morning down to 911. She was still eating and drinking and the weight number itself is scary, but not a huge loss from last night. I decided not to hand feed as it seems like she weighs less in the morning anyway, but will definitely hand feed when I get home from work if she is still the same weight or less.

Poops
Her poops were very soft, intermittently, again last night. They were also soft this morning; usually the softness is in the evenings for some reason.

She seemed a little “off” this morning, but so did Panda. It did get much cooler last night (we had been 80* in the house for quite a while), so maybe it was just because of the temperature? I did give her a bit of Metacam this morning for the pain/hunching to poop.

Will wait to see what the vet has to say, but Gizmo’s physical/xrays were good on July 11, so I’m guessing the next steps would be blood tests? She’s been in for those before (at a different clinic), but they were unable to get blood from her. She’s all black, so I’m sure that makes it harder. Also, now that she is 54 grams lower than her lowest weight I have recorded, and she’s still not back on track, I would be worried about stressing her out with that.

We have been dealing with the diarrhea/soft stools/coccidia/weight loss for almost three weeks now. (She went from about 1080 down to her lowest of 911 this morning. Her average this last year was about 1030.)

Opinions on the following?
I’m thinking worst case scenario here (and I’ll see what the vet says tonight and I'm NOT giving up on Gizmo), but what am I to do in the long term if we don’t end up with any answers and she keeps losing weight? How low can her weight go? How am I to hand feed her every four hours when I work full time (and, therefore, need to sleep)? I have some flexibility with my job, but not so much that I can reduce my hours or anything (plus, the drive to my house round trip is about 45 minutes and then toss in 30 minutes for hand feeding). At what point is it too much for her? For us? :(

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:45 pm


Are you back from the vet? What did he have to say?

In the big picture, the weight loss while significant does not seem extreme. I am sure it is difficult keeping it up though.

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countrygirl49
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Post   » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:27 am


Thanks for checking, Lynx. I'm glad the weight loss doesn't seem that extreme to you. And I did receive a call back from the vet this evening.

Weight:
When we had out appointment on 7/11 Gizmo was, of course, weighed. The vet said that she wrote down that Gizmo was a 3.5 out of 5 at the time, so just above normal (slightly overweight). She said 11gm of weight loss in a day isn't so bad, but 30 grams would be. She's hoping Gizmo will stabilize around the 900 mark and that 880 would be where I should start to get concerned.

Hand Feeding:
I'm not to do too much at this point (as long as she's eating on her own) other than maybe one supplemental feeding per day and tapering off on that. I also reintroduced veggies tonight at a fewer amount than usual. Hopefully that won't upset her guts.

Antibiotics/Pain Meds:
She'll continue her seven day course-final dose on Thursday morning. We'll do a seven day break after that and then start again if the diarrhea returns. I'll continue the Metacam as needed. She seems to do better with her dose split in half and given twice per day.

Poop:
Her poops have remained about the same-mostly better, but still not normal, with intermittent very soft poops, especially in the evening. Today was a bit worse, though. Instead of mostly 5's and 6's (formed, firmer) she had more 3's (soft, unformed) and hunching to go.

As far as the weight loss, if it continues, the next step would be to recheck her teeth under anesthesia. The vet checked them on 7/11 with the otoscope and with xray and they looked good, but she said it's possible a sharp point or something could have been missed.

I asked her about blood tests and such as an even further step to finding an underlying issue and she really doesn't like to put them through that. I'm know she would if it came down to it, but I would hate to put Gizmo through that (again) as well.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:15 am


We had a pig who had chewed up hay stuck between two of her back teeth. The vet noticed an off smell in her mouth. She got that cleaned out & went back to eating normally - if only it was always that simple.

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countrygirl49
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Post   » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:43 pm


That would be a blessing if it were that easy for all pigs!

We are thinking that her weight loss is probably linked with the Coccidia/diarrhea/soft stools because she was actually gaining weight for several months before this episode, before she plummeted in weight. We'll give it a bit more time and are praying that she stabilizes.

It took a lot of will to not weigh her this morning. I'll start doing it ONCE a day, after I get home. At that time, I'll also do her one feeding per day. It'll be less stressful for her (no chasing her multiple times a day to pick her up) and I won't be focused on weights every 8-12 hours, but every 24 hours.

This morning her poops were better than yesterday, but not perfect yet. She also had blood on some of the soft ones again last night.

She's very interested in her hay still, a little less interested in pellets again yesterday and this morning (I think), but doing better overall. If you looked at her and didn't know the issues going on, you'd think she was fine with her bright eyes and all.

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countrygirl49
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Post   » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:29 pm


Hi all. This morning’s update:

Poop:
Gizmo’s poop was worse again yesterday, mostly soft and generally unformed poops. Not quite as bad as last week, but only slightly better. Last night she also had a few streaks of blood on them again. This morning, more of the same.

Weight:
As of my ONE weigh in, yesterday afternoon, she had gained 5 grams. I’m so glad for the tiniest of gains and probably more so for her not losing.

So, it’s been either poops good, weight down…. Or, poops bad, weight stabilized. What the heck. Frustrating.

Tomorrow morning is her final dose of antibiotics. And then we wait. Coccidia *should* be cleared out by now, but I’m sure it lingers in the cage and they eat their own poop. LOL. I gave Gizmo 10 ml of critical care after weighing yesterday, her once a day supplemental feeding. I’ve been giving benebac mixed with water and Vitamin C drops 1-2 hours after antibiotics, but did neither of those this morning hoping that the lack of sugar (from the benebac) will help with poops. Will probably give her poop soup this afternoon (see questions below). I also didn’t give them veggies last night and only a small piece of lettuce each this morning, again, in hopes of firming her poops back up. I also continue to give her half a dose of pain meds in am and pm. Sometimes shortly after antibiotics, other times about an hour after.

I want to sanitize their cage, but HATE ammonia (I don’t even have any) and know it is super hard to kill coccidia. I also don’t want to use other harsh, potentially dangerous chemicals.

Questions:
-Will it be safe to give her poop soup from Panda? I would guess there might be coccidia in it? (Although, they eat their own poop and share a cage… With poop all over the aspen. LOL)
-Does anyone know how long it takes to kill coccidia in the system?
-Has anyone tried to steam clean Coroplast? How does it fare?
-Would straight vinegar or 90% isopropyl alcohol kill the coccidia?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:35 pm


Bleach might be a better choice. Apply a diluted amount (one part bleach, perhaps 20 parts water), let sit for 10 or 15 minutes, rinse and dry.

Sorry I can't answer your other questions.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:56 am


Ditto Lynx on the bleach. Use only a very dilute solution; it doesn't take much bleach to kill any microbes. Rinse well, at least a couple of times. They HATE the smell of bleach. Get as much lingering smell off as possible, then dry.

**Don't** use the 'splashless' bleaches. What they put in it to make it less likely to splash also makes it somewhat slimy and virtually impossible to thoroughly rinse off.

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countrygirl49
Supporter in '13

Post   » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:33 pm


Friday Gizmo Update

Weight
Yesterday afternoon she was only down 1 gram to 914! Yay! Praying she maintains or increases!

Poop
Not as yay. Yesterday most of her poops were very soft, almost all day. She had a few better ones late in the evening. Overnight it looks like she had some better ones mixed with very soft ones. There was blood on a few.

Activity
She seems much better aside from hunching/straining to poop. More her crazy self like she usually is. Hoping that’s a sign that her immune system is recovering.

Supplemental
I only gave her 9 ml of critical care yesterday and fewer drops of Vitamin C. I did not give her any benebac due to the sugar in it and the thought that might be contributing to the soft stools. She did, however, get forced some poop soup last night. I’m hoping that was the right decision; had to weigh the benefits vs. whether or not Panda had some coccidian in her system (her poops are normal, though). I didn’t give her any pain meds yesterday. This morning was her last dose of antibiotics! Hoping that helps her poop firm up as well.

Cage Sterilization
Thanks, Lynx and Talishan. That’s why I didn’t want to use anything like bleach, ammonia, etc. After researching temperatures that coccidia are killed at (most look to be destroyed between 135 F and 170 F), I moved both pigs to a playpen and steam cleaned their cage as well as the tools I use to clean the cage (mini broom and dustpans, trash can). TWICE. I’m sure it disinfected the cage itself, but I can’t thoroughly clean every inch of their room (the floor, surfaces, etc), so I’m sure coccidia still resides in the environment. Not to mention them eating their poop and then pooping more in the cage or eating hay contaminated with poop particles.

NEW Issue (Sludge w/blood)
Well, somewhat new. On July 11th at her appointment, her xrays showed sludge. She then proceeded to pee pink and gritty deposits on the towel in the box I transported her in. And then she peed definite blood when we got home. It happened AGAIN this morning. Panda doesn’t have an issue with gritty sludge that I’ve ever seen, so I’m pretty confident it was Gizmo. She tends to have deposits in her urine. This morning I found a deposit tinged pink on the aspen. I had to leave for work, so I couldn’t see whether more blood followed, but I was a little alarmed. It went away really quick on July 11th and the vet was pretty sure it was from irritation to the bladder/urethra. I’m guessing the same this morning, especially since she had a deposit last night as well. She’s been on Bactrim for a week (although, it has only been half a dose at .31ml twice a day), so I’m thinking it’s unlikely she would have any sort of TI. Plus, the deposit didn’t smell bad whatsoever. Also, she hadsn’t been as active as she usually is due to feeling under the weather, so that may contribute. Either way, I definitely need to implement measures to help decrease the risk for stones!!!!!! My nightmare.

Question
Does critical care have a lot of calcium in it? Since she’s had quite a bit of it in the past few weeks, could that be contributing to her sludge?

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