Eye discharge and squinting


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 7:45 am

Bordetella can, although I´m not sure about the other rodents. Ask your vet to check for that specifically or anything else that can be passed to other species. I really think you should do an autopsy. Hillyer Quesenberry´s book says to submit blood sample to see if white blood cell count is up or if neutrophilia is present Submit sample of nasal exudate for bacteria culture and sensitinity testing.

Chloramphenicol succinate injectable is recommended in one of my books(Harkness) for Bordetella. Another book has Chloramphenicol(30-50mg/kg q12 PO) Trimethoprim/sulfa(30-50mg/kg q12 PO) and Enrofloxacin (5-10mg/kg q12 PO or IM) plus fluid therapy, oxygen force feeding an C supplementation for Bordetella.

Until you know what it was I would have Gavin treated preventatively for Bordetella. If he´s fine, the drugs won´t hurt him. If he´s coming down with something they may save him.

I don´t mean to scare you I just think you should take precautions until you can get a diagnosiis of what was wrong with Sweetheart especially since the rabbit is fairly new and they are known to sometimes carry Bordetella (I had forgotten about the rabbit). But dogs and cats can carry it too. Kennel Cough is Bordetella.


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:22 am

I just thought of that, too. Your bun hasn´t been tested for Bordetella, right? Maybe you could have him tested, just to be on the safe side?

I´m so very sorry for your loss. You did everything you could and I don´t think Chloramphenicol is to blame, since I´ve had excellent results with it in the past. And you DID catch it early. On the other hand, sugar water??? What the hell?? This vet needs to be slapped.


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:49 am

Hi Alibabble. I am so sorry for your loss. The very same thing happened to me two weeks ago with our piggie Zelda. She went down hill so fast. Unfortunately, some vets just don´t understand the severity of a URI in a guinea pig. I feel confident, and you should as well, that we did all we could.

We are in the middle of moving to a new house right now so I don´t want to get a new piggie until we are settled. I can´t wait!!

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Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 7:46 pm

I´m so sorry, Alibabble. You must be sad. You have been a great mom to your little guy. I´m sure Sweetheart knows you did everything you could.


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:03 pm

I´m so angry right now that I can barely think straight. We took him in for a post-mortem and were subtly discouraged from requesting further lab work, and the vet did a brief postmortem. She didn´t even bother to report her findings to us in person, she let the tech do it right at the front counter... we didn´t even merit a room so that I could cry some more in private.

She believes that he had salmonella, good sanitation in the environment should prevent future problems. So not only did she ignore my suggestion that it was a URI heading towards pneumonia, but she also managed to suggest that my pig was living in filthy conditions leading to his ultimate demise. Nice. Maybe I´m missing something, I just briefly skimmed the sections on Salmonella in my Merck veterinary manual, but I don´t see any mention of severe pneumonia like symptoms.

Kennel cough is rampant in Prince George right now, the SPCA was shut down for a week due to an outbreak at their facilities. Everyone is urged to get their dogs vaccinated for Kennel cough right now. Bordetella could be a distinct possibility. I´m thinking of putting Gavin on the Chloropalm myself, ignoring this vet, and making an appointment next week with my regular vet. This never would have happened had our regular vet not been sick. I can´t believe the kind of care we have received.
Last edited by Alibabble on Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:07 pm

Ask them again to check for Bordetella. Labwork is a must. They have no right to dissuade you.

Our vet freezes tissue samples so they can be sent out at a later date if needs be.

Salmonella sounds wrong and she has no business giving that as a dignosis without the labwork to back her up.

Get the bun checked for Bordetella.

Carpe Cavies

Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:55 pm

Sweetheart was with his "herd" and you did all you could. Remember the snuggles and your time together.

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Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:00 pm

Salmonella can sneak in on a rinsed head of leaf lettuce. It is not necessarily due to poor sanitation.

I´m sorry you got no useful help to determine exactly what caused your gp´s death. You have to be so frustrated. I surely hope whatever was wrong is not passed to your other pets.


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:40 pm

All that I´ve read about Salmonella symptoms indicate that you would see symptoms sooner - anorexia, rough coat, weakness conjunctivitis. Diarrhea may or may not be present. There is no mention as to how fast it kills.

I think the vet is seizing on the diarrhea.

Bordetella has a sudden onset and can vary from no symptoms to anorexia, inappetence, eye and nasal discharge, breathing difficulties and death.

Incubation is 5 to 7 days. The acute or epizootic form of infection has a sudden onset and lasts 2 to 3 days.

The Bordetella cases I´ve run across on the net are extremely fast moving.

The Bun should be checked for Pasteurella too.

Also with our sudden URI deaths autopsy has revealed heart problems etc.

The best thing to do is a thorough autopsy for a definitive diagnosis.


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:32 pm

I´m calling the vet from my home town tomorrow, he rarely gets to see exotics but he has personal experience, and he´s willing to listen to me. I´m going to get the bunny checked, as well as possibly a checkup on Gavin. I´ll also ask him if he could do a more thorough autopsy for me. Fortunately he´s only an hour drive away. I´m feeling so discouraged with the vets in town that I don´t feel comfortable going to one. There are three veterinary hospitals in town and I called two before Sweetheart died. Once my regular vet gets back I´ll talk with her and get her to address our complaints.

Sweetheart had all the possible symptoms you mentioned for Bordetella. I´m confused as to why the vet was focusing on the diarrhea, it was mild and nearly gone by the time she saw him. When we were calling around looking for a viable emergency vet last night Sweetheart was audibly gasping for breath, his lungs were crackly and he was slightly shocky. I can´t believe that the vets weren´t overly concerned, and seemed to pass it off as a foregone conclusion that he would die. The second vet we called was willing to come in, only because I asked her if she could subcue some fluids and give him oxygen. I´m pretty sure I shouldn´t have to suggest basic procedure to a vet.


Post   » Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:59 pm

Some vets don´t want to admit they don´t know what´s wrong. So they seize on anything to make it appear they know what´s going on. It makes it very hard to have dialogue and make suggestions when they are already mentally blocking you.

I would be inclined to dose Gavin now. Hopefully Josephine will drop in.


Post   » Thu Apr 18, 2002 8:20 am

Aren´t you in Vancouver?

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Post   » Thu Apr 18, 2002 10:15 am

I´m so sorry Alibabble. My thoughts are with you and Gavin. I´m sure Gavin needs extra love right now.

Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Thu Apr 18, 2002 8:14 pm

Perhaps putting Gavin on preventative antibiotics wouldn´t be a bad idea. Stay on alert, since if it was contagious there could easily be another animal sick. I USED to get URIs in twos or threes (when I was getting them periodically--bad me!). A lot has changed since then, including my diligent quarantine and cleaning rituals, but any animals in close proximity are at risk.

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Post   » Fri Apr 19, 2002 12:14 am

I am so sorry for your loss. You tried so hard.

All I know about salmonella is that the diarhea smells really bad. I mean REALLY bad. But it doesn´t sound like this is what your guy had.

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