Nutrition Questions / Bladder Sludge

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herder79

Post   » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:14 pm


Hello! Longtime fan of the site but never had to post before. Just have some questions about bladder sludge and nutrition. I've been reading other posts as well as the nutrition guidelines. I know I want a good calcium:phosphorus ratio, but do I also need to limit calcium? I could not find a specific number for the amount of calcium that is recommended. Also, I've seen some mention of using juice to help with adding moisture to their diet. Do you just offer watered down juice in a bowl? What kind of juice is recommended? I'm going to get some Critical Care - should I just offer that in a bowl also? Should I be syringe feeding her water / juice / critical care?

The pig in question is female, got her as a rescue 4 years ago and she was an adult then (so I really don't know her age). She is still eating really well. She has been to the vet and doesn't have stones and has been treated for a UTI with enrofloxacin x 10 days (they didn't have Bactrim). She has a friend. They live in a 10 sq ft C&C cage with unlimited timothy hay and only a small amount of Oxbow timothy pellets. I give them fresh veg twice daily. I've been washing the veg and leaving it very wet to help with moisture intake. I've added more grass to their diet and am focusing on leafy greens and am starting to understand the food calculators and lists on this site. :) I'm also going to start filtering their water (I feel terrible I didn't realize what a difference this could make!). Her weight is down but stable and she is mostly acting herself but I can tell she has some difficulty urinating.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

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Lynx
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Post   » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:00 pm


Water is better than juice. Juice has unneeded sugars. Almost all foods have some calcium and calcium is very important to life.

A general recommendation to limit calcium is what we've recommended if there is an issue with stones. Have you read www.guinealynx.info/stones.html ?

herder79

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:41 am


Thanks! Yes, I have read that, and just looked through it again. I guess if I don't have a starting point for calcium intake it's hard to know what less means. Should I just take an average of what I've been feeding and aim for lower? Like how much less? I guess I was just hoping for something a little more specific, like an RPA (Recommended Piggy Allowance) of calcium. :)

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pigjes
Cavy Comic

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:47 am



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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:53 am


See also www.guinealynx.info/chart.html You can sort on calcium and also sort on the calcium/phosphorus ratio.
High quality grass hay should always be available. You might consider www.kmshayloft.com timothy pellets as they have a lower and better calcium source.

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Kimera

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:12 am


Unfortunately, a diet only will not prevent forming of urinary stones. Tendency for urolithiasis is genetic, and very common in guinea pigs. A susceptible pig has to be monitored and treated, if need be. A good diet is very important factor for maintaining health of guinea pigs, but unfortunately, in itself it is not enough to control urinary stones or kidney problems. Nevertheless, a bad diet will significantly increase the chance of urinary tract issues.

herder79

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:21 am


Well, the vet ruled out stones with an ultrasound. He said it's just sludge. He was unable to get a urine sample but treated with antibiotics anyway. I was just trying to help prevent the sludge. Is there a treatment for sludge? My vet did not mention it. Thanks very much everyone.

I'm not replacing vet care with the forum. I work at a vet - I'm an RVT - but I know that this place is such a good reference for guinea pig knowledge. It's just a lot of info and some of it is hard to completely understand.

Edit: thank you Lynx for that link to that thread that's exactly what I was looking for!

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:43 am


There's no treatment per se for sludge, but two things that will help with it are increased water intake and exercise.

What veggies are you feeding your pigs? One widely recommended veggie, romaine lettuce, seems to increase urinary calcium in some pigs, but not in all. Cilantro will also do the same thing. So if you're feeding either of those, I'd recommend ditching the cilantro and switching the lettuce to red or green leaf.

One reason it's so hard to aim at a particular calcium percentage in the diet is that the chemical make-up of foods can change with the age they are when they're harvested, so you're always aiming at a moving, unknown target. It's hard to hit!

herder79

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:46 pm


That makes sense. I'm such a left brain, I always want everything to be precise and specific and life doesn't often give me that! You'd think I'd get used to it! ;)

I don't feed romaine anymore but I do give cilantro. I will ditch it for sure! I can increase their floor time as well. I try to feed a variety, not too much of any one thing. Bell peppers, red and green leaf lettuce, cilantro, very small amounts of parsley and not too often, celery, cucumber, carrots (not too much) with the rare fruit like a bit of apple or berry or melon or tangerine or banana. I usually do 10g per vegetable, 20g of lettuce with total feeding being 60g for both pigs to share, twice daily. My two girls absolutely LOVE their leafy greens and I am so grateful they are such good eaters!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:22 pm


The vitamin C will deteriorate with age. The calcium and phosphorus probably won't (they are minerals). However, the chart, as explained on the page, only gives guidelines. The precise values of the foods you give cannot be determined unless that precise food is tested for mineral content. Consider fruits treats. Vegetables are much more important.

sherrymartinez

Post   » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:02 pm


Really... cilantro is a negative? I thought it was low in calcium? Poor Jazz, all his favorites !!! I'm going to sound elementary, but I just don't understand the calcium ratio chart. I'd do better if someone would show me pictures - Is it possible in my nervousness to cut calcium I actually took too much away? I'm torn on what to do next, he seems to be happy and pain free except when he's actually passing urine or feces. (I posted history under bladder issues and sub Q fluids.)

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:15 pm


It has nothing to do with the amount of calcium in cilantro. There's something about some pigs that make them secrete excess urinary calcium when fed romaine and cilantro. No one knows what it is, but several of us have tested these greens with our pigs and counted the dried spots when they were eating them, and then after they were taken out of the diet.

There may be other greens that do the same thing, but those are frequently fed to GPs, and are the only ones I've personally tested.

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