Guinea pig losing fur and messy bottom

amyfw

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:08 pm


Lynx,

I work very very VERY hard to prevent urine scald. She has had it off and on during this. Mostly just fur loss in those areas, no wounds. She does now have bumblefoot because of it. Being treated with silver cream 2x a day plus daily baths and diaper cream for her skin.

I have tried both sub a fluids at Cornell (daily, then every other day then once a week) for the first month but it did t help. I do daily fluids orally now just to keep her hydrated plus wet lettuce and Cukes for the fluids.

The bacteria has changed. I am going to get them wrong but the first was corona something and then trouperella and now two new ones. I didn’t even bother with their names honestly. All of them are supposed to be susceptible to TMS but she has been on TMS 2x a day continuously since the end of January (and correct dose for weight) with no improvement and during this time has always shown signs of a uti (wet and leaky, excessive urine in cage, excessive thirst) which is why I was willing to try new things like D’Mannose and other herbal things to try to flush her out.

She is on fleece bedding with the 2 layers of uhaul pads but I have tried UK vetbed and also guineadad fleece with bamboo just to see if the bedding was somehow infected.

Cornell’s theory is that she is incontinent which causes leaking. Sitting in or near urine causes the bad bacteria to grow and then re enter her urinary tract thus causing an infection. Before they suggested that all the sludge could be harboring the bacteria as well since antibiotics can not penetrate non living things (sludge being non living) but she passed all but a tiny bit of sludge.

Lately I have been reading about bio colonies and bacterial uti colonies in humans and it’s terrifying but also possible that’s what we are dealing with. It’s just hard to determine what will help if anything and to know if she is comfortable and ok throughout all of this.

I am sure I don’t need to explain to this crowd that with bimonthly cultures and ultrasounds that we are in the several thousands of dollars for treatment this year and it’s just frustrating that we can’t find an answer for it.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:41 pm


Do you use a little bleach when you wash the fleece? Do you change it frequently? I was just considering whether the bedding could hold the bacteria and be involved in reinfection.

I am sorry she is having all these problems. You are so diligent!

amyfw

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:49 pm


I do not use bleach. I was afraid that would ruin the fleece or wash away it’s color. I use vinegar though and wash it 3 times before drying. I am happy to try bleach if you think it will work.

I change the cage in full every 5 days and change out the pee pads she is on and the kitchen area every day. Sometimes twice per day.

The fleece seems to be very quick wicking which is good but she often lays in her hay and hay seems to be terrible at absorbing. I change the hay out at least 3 times per day, often 4 times.

I stay at home full time so I am able to give meds, force feed when needed, and change her bedding at all hours. I need to remind myself that I have kept her going with a pretty good quality of life (there were a few times in there that were touch and go) but mostly all positive for 6 months which is a long time in piggie years.

I still wish I could find something to help though. I may try the proin syrup and see if that works. The hope is that if she dries up then the meds can kill all the bacteria sitting in her bladder and she can be free of the uti.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:39 pm


Fleece is nearly indestructible, and the color goes all the way through the fiber. You won't hurt it at all by using bleach on it.

amyfw

Post   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:28 pm


Anyone know how to post pics? I want to post one of butterscotch and caramel baby as well as their cage set up so you can let me know if you see anything of alarm that could be causing the uti.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:13 pm


There are directions for posting pics in the Feedback forum and I think also in the FAQ (see link above left). You find a site like imgur to host them and then post a link to the pics.

The bleach would be very diluted. It is extremely effective at killing bacteria. If the fleece had an odor, that would be an indicator of bacteria present that was not removed by simple washing.

amyfw

Post   » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:17 pm


I am going to try bleach this week and see if it helps. Thanks all. I am a,so starting the proin tomorrow and will let you know if it helps or not.

User avatar
Renonvsparky

Post   » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:42 am


Reading through this and I must say that you are dealing with a lot of issues with this guinea pig. All I can say is stick with it. One thing you said that has me thinking was about the floor time. Do you just put her down on the open floor and let her have the run of the room if she chooses or is there some kind of enclosure? I ask because piggies are known to freeze in one spot if they feel insecure. Also is there some place she can hide in or play in? A fleece forrest or a tunnel is effective for both purposes. Do you have toys and things in with her? Little stuffies work. Even something as minor as a crumpled up piece of paper or a small block of wood can get their curiosity up.

My boar, Mr Bubbles was a non mover due to being overweight, but we started small with the crumpled up piece of paper. He bumped it around with his nose at first and later on decided to pick it up, flip it over his head and then go get it to do it again. We started adding other things like his tunnel, fleece forrest Eventually he got to where he runs around and plays. The best thing is the fleece forrest. All 4 of mine love it. You can buy one or it's not too hard to make one. It provides endless hours of fun for them. I think the feeling of the strips of fleece running along their body is amusing to them. They also love the security it provides.

I know your piggie has heart issues so she can't really run, but getting her to move around even a little bit should help with her weight and possibly help strengthen her heart. I would start small by making sure she feels secure on the floor and giving her the crumpled up paper just to see what she does. That or a little stuffie that is smaller than her, but not too small.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:23 am


Good advice! Moving around more should also help suspend any calcium deposits so they get peed out. Maybe a vibrating pad along with extra fluid?

amyfw

Post   » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:23 am


Update-

Butterscotch was placed on proin. .1 ml did not do anything to help the urination issues but at .2 I noticed she was totally dry. This was great news except that she began to appear very bloated and uncomfortable and was losing weight. I am trying to rest her tummy as best I can by taking her off the sodium citrate and everything else to see if I can narrow it down to see what is causing the problem.
I thought it might be the .2 of proin but if I tried to lower the dose she began to leak again. However, eating is also important so I took her off the proin yesterday to see if it will help. Also, she began drinking excessively Tuesday and a Wednesday so I thought taking her off proin short term to see if that makes a difference might be a good idea.
Her only meds at this point are Bactrim and meloxicam. I suppose they could be the culprits as well but wanted to see about the proin first since it seemed to get worse with the start of that.
I continue to feed her 3 times a day with critical care but it’s not enough to keep her weight up.
What do you suggest for weight loss or any other reasons she might be losing weight?

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:19 pm


Does she show any signs of pain? If so, you could ask the vet about increasing the meloxicam. I wish I had some helpful ideas for you on the weight loss but other than increasing the hand feeding and dealing with any potential pain issues, I don't have any other ideas.

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:44 am


I can't imagine that either the Bactrim or the Meloxicam would be causing a problem. I would definitely try stopping the Proin for now and see if it makes a difference. Keep us posted.

Erinspigs

Post   » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:21 am


Can you make her "work" for her food a little bit? Spread out peppers so she has to go get the pieces and at least walk some. Place some foods she likes in harder to get areas where she may need to dig a little, stuff like that.

amyfw

Post   » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:26 pm


Hi everyone, I took her off the proin and she is leaking all over but much happier and eating much better. It’s just that now she is soaked all the time and always messy again.

Any advice with chronic uti’s ? Meds don’t seem to be work but I want to help her live as long as she can. She is still on TMS but none of the meds have worked and we are out of antibiotics to try. Does d’mannose work on these guys? Any herbs or supplements or just flushing her out with water?

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:55 pm


If it were me, I would continue with the TMS but am surprised you are seeing no improvement. I take it the vet has ruled out pyometra (an infection of the uterus)?

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:25 am


Glad to hear that she's doing better, but the incontinence and chronic UTIs are concerning. Without reading back through, can you remind me what bedding she is on? I think I may have already mentioned that our paralyzed pig did better on paper bedding than on fleece in terms of staying dry. He was barely able to move towards the end, but he stayed fairly dry and did thankfully not have any issues with UTIs.

I have not found any literature to support the use of D'Mannose in either rabbits or guinea pigs to prevent or treat bladder issues. If anything, the few references I have found seem to suggest that it could cause digestive upset.

amyfw

Post   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:46 am


She is on fleece. I tried them with carefresh but when she got bored she tried to eat it. Yikes! I tried U.K. vet Ed and that was worse than the fleece. ShamWow was suggested by a vet and so I just ordered it. I am going to sew it into a pad and see if it helps.

We are pretty sure that passing so many stones with the initial sludge and uti may have damaged her sphincter so she just drips at this point. Having drippy, Unconcentrated urine means that the TMS can’t concentrate in her bladder and fully work. This means the TMS is not really working at full capacity. Lying in her pee where bacteria can grow doesn’t help either. Once again, yikes!

We definitely ruled out pyometra but it is possible that it has formed that. She seems perky and to be acting normally though which I am not sure if she would be if she had

We all are sort of at a loss over here. I mean, 5 antibiotics rotated continuously since January should have done something by now. It does help for a while but then gets worse again even while still on it. I’m starting to agree with internal medicine which found that whether on or off meds chronic uti’s sort of respond the same because it’s drug resistant so it doesn’t really help and might even hurt the G.I. in the process.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:03 am


Does she drink excessively?

What I found (years ago) was when my guinea pigs were on Bactrim (I believe this is TMS), the Bactrim was peed out and killed bacteria, resulting in no odor.

amyfw

Post   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:34 pm


She does drink a lot, yes and TMS is bactrim.

Erinspigs

Post   » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:08 pm


There are a heck of a lot of "suspicions" going on. If it were me, Id treat for mites and see how she does. Everything you're saying indicates a mire problem with the possible exception of low heart rate - and not sure that may not have something to do with a sever infestation also. I've seen many pigs get diagnosed with so many different things at same time, then they re on so many meds, it never seems to work out. One things at a time, that's what I would do, and mites is the big one in my little experience. Good luck

Post Reply
63 posts