Bite Wound, Hole in Face

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:18 pm


Keep the poop soup up on at least a daily basis. It's easier to give if you syringe it.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:12 pm


What brand of pellets is she eating again? Have you experimented with different brands?

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:23 am


Ok! I gave her another one tonight. I've only tried syringing it, there's no way I could get her to get it down otherwise. She's a feisty thing.

I've got her back on the Oxbow Simple Harvest Adult Guinea Pig food right now. I first had her on the Oxbow Essentials Cavy Cuisine Adult food, but they all seem to like the Simple Harvest better. It is slightly lower in protein and fiber, about 2% and 2-3% lower than the Essentials, respectively. It also is a little higher in calcium (0.05% more), and there's 0.05% more phosphorus in Simple Harvest as well. Other than that, all the vitamins have identical amounts in the guaranteed analysis.

Other than changing to the Simple Harvest, I've only tried one other pellet, the Mazuri. I actually started transitioning her over to it because I was out of Oxbow and it would take a while for any to either ship to me or my store to restock. I began transitioning her over to the Mazuri on September 15 (half-and-half), and they were eating just Mazuri by September 21st. Maggie started having loud, high-pitched flatulence by late Sunday the 23rd-early Monday the 24th.

She started refusing to eat the Mazuri pellets on October 1st, but would continue eating hay. She did fine on hay and a daily Oxbow vitamin C tab. Im not claiming the Mazuri pellets caused it, but just as a precaution, I switched her back over to Oxbow Simple Harvest on October 11, and after I replaced the Mazuri with Oxbow, she started eating pellets again. She's been eating anything you put in front of her ever since.

Other than that, she hasn't had any pellet changes since I got her. The people who previously had her were giving her the Wal-mart, cheap, awful pellets, but she has not had any of that since I adopted her.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:34 am


Have you come up with any correlations with bloat episodes?

Logging all foods daily, along with noting the kind of pellets, may help you minimize bloat in the future.

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:58 am


I have noted the bloat and lethargy were greatly reduced after switching back from Mazuri to Oxbow. However, she was also started on metoclopramide on the 6th and I changed her to Oxbow on the 11th, so it may have simply been the metoclopramide and the pellets had nothing to do with it. But her refusing the Mazuri pellets after getting sick and gladly accepting the Oxbow pellets makes me think they were causing her discomfort or something. While the bloat still occurs minorly without vegetables in her diet, I have noticed any time I have tried to give her any kind of vegetables the bloat seems to be worse after about 6-12 hours following and stays that way for up to 24 hours following. I've tried cucumber, green leaf, romaine, green bell pepper, and red bell pepper, all individually at different times. The vet said hopefully once all the gas in her system has been expelled, vegetables will no longer affect her like this. I've been keeping a detailed food journal for her, although until we can add veggies again, there isn't much to put down.

Over the past couple of days I have sectioned off a larger piggy-proofed area of my living room (about 35-40 sq feet), and have noted if I keep her in there for 2 hours or more each day (typically closer to 4), it is keeping the bloat down fairly significantly...if she will actually move around while she's in there. Some days she just doesn't feel like exploring or exercising when she has floor time, and then I'll put her back in her cage and try again later. While the bloat is still occurring, the discontinuation of vegetables and more floor time has significantly decreased the severity. I also 100% believe the poop soup, which I've been giving her 1-2 times daily, is helping.

I'm planning to get my hands on the Oxbow Papaya Support (Oxbow says they still sell it but I have had no luck finding it) or Oxbow Digestive Support tabs and see if that helps regulate her a little too. The vet said she had good results with the former Oxbow Papaya Plus in guinea pigs that were more sensitive to getting GI stasis or bloat, but they discontinued in 2014. Now they have Oxbow Papaya Support but I have yet to find anywhere that actually sells it.

Hopefully, another week or so of this new routine will keep her from creating new gas and give the existing gas time to work its way out of her body.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:11 pm


Thank you so much for your detailed information!

I don't know if you have read this page, but it mentions an imbalance of gram negative and gram positive bacteria in the gut. If I remember right, it is the gram negative bacteria that is more likely to cause diarrhea, and, I believe, gas as a byproduct. It may be that some bloat is caused by an imbalance of bacteria in the gut. Your giving poop soup (the best is using the cecal feces that are reingested by guinea pigs to extract more nutrients) may help get things back to normal.
www.guinealynx.info/diarrhea.html

hiraethth

Post   » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:06 pm


poor baby :( i hope she gets better soon. the only animal hospital near me is half an hour away, and last time i went there they said my dog had a broken hip, then emailed be three weeks later saying nothing was wrong with her hip and the foot was the problem. i hope you can see that vet asap!

rjespicer

Post   » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:17 pm


We have a bunch of the different Oxbow Supplements but we usually buy them from Amazon if that helps?

I found the Papaya support on amazon but the picture showed a package with what looks to be Asian language labeling (although couldn't say which language)

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:24 am


Thanks, Lynx!

Hiraethth, I'm so sorry to hear about your dog! Finding a decent vet can be difficult. Maggie has seen the vet three times since this started in late September, but I finally found a decent one about 2.5 hours away that I've been taking her to!

Rjespicer, thanks! I'd seen the papaya support on there, with it being in a different language and no reviews on it, I was a little hesitant, although I'll probably end up doing that if I can't find it anywhere else. I actually just ordered some of the Oxbow Digestive Health ones from Amazon today; I'd looked on pet store websites for them but hadn't even thought to check Amazon!

rjespicer

Post   » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:53 pm



User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:02 am


I do have to say I am somewhat skeptical about Oxbow's (and other company's) special products. Unless there is sound scientific research to back up some of the claims (digestive healthy, for example), it may be a case of throwing together some items that sound promising but don't actually deliver.

rjespicer

Post   » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:15 pm


Agreed however they work well as treats and the Papaya ones (it turns out we have some) seem to be the only treats Nala will eat, she isn't keen on the bigger ones but Suzi and Chunkits love them.

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:10 am


Lynx, I completely agree! There are a lot of products for humans and animals alike that are useless but unfortunately marketed to improve health. I usually give them some kind of treat anyway, I so figured trading her usual treat for the digestive health tablets as a treat at least couldn't do any harm, and if it does happen to work, fantastic! I think the main ingredient is timothy hay, but I do know it does include chicory root and ginger root. We use chicory root as a supplement in humans as a prebiotic to help support healthy bacteria, and there are studies regarding the benefit in human gut flora, but I don't know if there are any studies specifically for guinea pigs. One of the other things I noticed it contained is ginger root, which we use in humans that have low gastric motility and functional dyspepsia. Again, there are plenty of studies for the benefit in human populations, but I'm not sure if studies have been done specifically for guinea pigs. Either way, she seems to enjoy the, so if they don't do anything else, at least it's just a little bit of added fiber to her diet that is disguised as a treat! :o)

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:27 am


Another little update as well...

I noticed Maggie was leaving more calcium spots than usual on her fleece the past couple days, and she also was peeing less volume but with more frequency. She also was peeing on me more than usual (within a 30 min lap time, about 3 times), which is highly unusual for her, and this led me to believe she had less control of her bladder than usual. Another quick trip to the vet today revealed a tiny bladder stone in the urethra, which was easily removed, as well as a UTI. Fortunately, the UTI was caught very early, she doesn't seem to be in much pain, and a bacteria sensitivity test revealed it should be easily treated. The vet is fairly positive this has been a result of her refusing to drink while she was struggling with the GI stasis and bloat. While infusions of lactated ringers can help keep their bodies hydrated, it is not as beneficial to their urinary tract as drinking. Even though she's been drinking for the past couple weeks, the bladder stone likely formed then and has taken this long to pass through her urinary tract and get lodged in the urethra. I also believe that her lethargy while being so sick greatly contributed to this as well; even though I kept her hair cut short and changed her bed often, not moving after urinating multiple times still kept that area slightly damp and could have contributed to the UTI. I thought I would share so others who have had issues with GI motility and refusing water can be on the lookout for urinary tract issues as well!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:50 am


I am glad you are so observant and had this taken care of. And glad she did not need surgery.

I don't remember if I have mentioned it, but some people soak some of the hay in water (which guinea pigs seem to love), removing uneaten wet hay in an hour or two to prevent it getting moldy. You might try that too.

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:52 pm


I was very thankful she didn't need surgery. That was my biggest fear when I noticed the calcium spots and suspected she may have a bladder stone.

And yes you have! Maggie absolutely loves wet hay; I started doing it when she was very ill and wouldn't drink. She's drinking very well now, but sometimes she still gets some wet hay just for a little extra hydration. She just thinks she's getting a special treat!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:44 pm


I personally think the extra liquid would help any guinea pig (it seems many don't drink a lot). So as frequent treats for her and any other guinea pig is a great idea.

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:41 pm


Maggie, who I have been blessed to have had her in good health since October, has been having a new issues. Two weeks ago tomorrow, her front tooth was very thick towards the gums, and extremely loose. It ended up falling off/breaking off that night. The vet said to give it time and it would grow back. She was eating just fine (even better without the loose and surely painful tooth). Two weeks later, the tooth hadn’t grown at all. Last night I got home from work and she wouldn’t eat her nightly veggies, which is extremely unlike her. Did her daily weighing and she weighed SEVERAL grams less, and her tummy felt empty. She tried to eat half a grape, but opened her mouth and let it drop and refused to eat it again as if painful.

Fortunately, I’m in a different city for the month than I usually am, and there is an emergency exotics vet. I took her around 10:30pm and two hours later all he said was “That tooth is a MESS. It’s probably dead and she’ll need surgery. Take her to (x) vet in the morning. Here’s 2.5 days of antibiotics (Baytril) and pain meds (Metacam).” Soooo pretty useless.

This morning I took her to the recommended exotics hospital. The vet called the emergency vet an idiot and said that while the tiny nub that is left of her tooth is yellower than it should be, it didn’t appear to be dead. The vet gave me 10 days of Baytril, Rimadyl, another bag of Critical Care, and a 15g syringe of Bene-Bac Plus Pet Gel with the directions of 1g daily. She also recommended several daily helpings of poop soup.

I’m open to any and all suggestions regarding her new issue, but I’m especially worried about the Bene-Bac dosing. Today I gave her about a gram and a half (the half extra being on accident from the learning curve of using that particular syringe and it’s dosing mechanism. Is anyone familiar with that particular Bene-Bac product and if this dosing seems right? Giving it to her just seemed like a LOT but it is once daily dosing. Also the baytril is twice daily...should I be dividing up that gram to give 60-90 minutes after each dose, or continue once daily? I want to trust this vet, she seemed knowledgeable, but from previous experiences I always tend to question a new vet until I know I can trust them.

Added note: she’s been eating since her dose of Metacam last night. I still have two more doses of Metacam for tonight and tomorrow before I have to start using the Rimadyl the second vet gave her (she also said to wait an extra day between the two pain meds to make sure the Metacam is out of her system before starting the Rimadyl). I’m still supplementing with CC until her diet gets back up to its normal outrageous self. She’s eating it without any fighting now that the pain is down, so she’s definitely hungry and willing to eat.
Last edited by GreysGuineaPigs on Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:50 pm


Dosing probiotics is an art, not a science. No matter what anybody says, you're just guessing at what you're giving.

And yes, you should be giving some 60-90 minutes after each antibiotic dose.

GreysGuineaPigs

Post   » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:01 pm


Thanks Bpatters, I’ll attempt to divide it in half for her to go with antibiotics. I was mostly concerned because it’s for “dogs, cats, and other small mammals” with the dosing on the actual syringe saying “1g daily for animals up to 10lbs” and it seemed bizzare to give a guinea pig the same amount as a 10lb puppy! Haha. Of course it is ‘only’ a probiotic so it’s not like it would cause her to overdose, but I always want to make sure, especially with everything we’ve been through with her health. Her history of chronic bloat and episode of GI stasis may also be why the vet wants her to get a little extra good bacteria in her stomach.

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