Unsure of what happened to my pig

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Lisa12

Post   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:34 am


*sorry about some English spelling mistakes

*Now I am really in doubt. Even more. I ll ask else what they said. But as they re less experienced (vets) from other clinics, some are really good, but I dont really know how good in comparisation with Iries old vets.

And in this clinic now there are a lot of new people who just came out of school, now. It doesnt make a problem because they wont operate, but you know I am unhappy about it. One girl even didnt know a lot about pigs:(.

Lisa12

Post   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:56 am


We decided if I wont be able to talk to vet before 16.3. and get things straight Irie wont be operated. Maybe never. Its alright. Like Ringos vet said..dont complicate..if its not changing that much.. leave it be..

I called other vet for exotics and she also said they keep animals overnight. Very wierd.

If we cancel operation on 16., Irie is scheduled for very skilled dog dermatologist visit on 17.3.!:) and i ll ask finally if she thinks this iseven necessary to put out..if she said no..it Will stay. For sure. Even if its growing..After all its not growing that fast.

Thats all from us.:) I read on guinea lynx pigs can go without food for 6-12hours. Hope that is true, anyway. I always forcefeed pig if he stops eating every 2!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:55 am


Butrophanol is a pain killer, not anesthetic so they could be used together. I don't understand about the staying overnight either. I would push for taking home.

Lisa12

Post   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:07 am


Tnx, Lynx, so much, really.

Some assistant(but it aint she who decided said he would be operated in after noon..but she doesnt even know, cause the vet who Will operate know this)so I need to get him.

If I wont be able to(as I wrote there is chaos since the other vet left, there were two, equally experienced) I Will ask elswhere if i can get anywhere with good vet to be operated in the morning and left in the evening, of course.

Otherwise i Will let you know what dermatologist says on 17.3. Thanks again.

Are Metacam in liquid form and not in tablet(like Doxycyline)? Irie is intolerant in medication in tablet form that disolves in the water..it means too much i can ask you if i cant ask the vet..

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:45 am


Metacam is a liquid.

Lisa12

Post   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:51 am


Tnx, Sef, respect.

We Will let you know about dermatology or if he goes on surgery(its scheduled on 16.3 as alternative dermatology visit is scheduled on 17.3) histology reports..

I&Irie are so grateful we *met* you all.. :). And for the help we got and are getting.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:46 am


Good luck and do keep us posted.

Lisa12

Post   » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:49 am


thanks, Sef, of course I Will!

I Will try to get the vet or at least some accurate co-worker if Irie can be free to go home at the same day-if not canceling is in order.

However I read that Butrophanol can cause some sort of respiratory depression in humans with asthma(severe), Irie has of course as you know bordetella infection+some form of asthma(not severe, no trouble breathing, diagnosed after sounds from his lungs, and both vets said its not pneumonia is asthma). HE doesnt need medications for it.All of his life, even before infection.

Does anybody know something about it.
My friend is a pharmacist, she knows all ABs but she said.. sorry, really but you and Irie are so careful(but she also said hands down:)) about all the things that i cant really say how it Will effect guinea pig as I dont know enough about anesthesia and things..

And *our*vet is so not open to thoose kind of question is upsetting and more than that.
So if we wanna his help we need to research a lot of things on our own+i cant help it if other owners are so not interested what is happening with their pigs so only we re asking questions. But nevermind, we are used to it, by now.

If anybody has some informations about guinea pigs with asthma/bronhitis and risk of respiratory depression and butorphanol please write something.

We have to do the homework…:)soi can feel a bit better at least. Irie is eating food and not caring, luckily:).

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:21 am


Butrophanol does need to be dosed very lightly in this case. Too much can indeed result in a "dopy" guinea pig. Read this:
http://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?t=231

Talishan says regarding post operative care (in case you are given narcotics): "A word of caution: use as little narcotic as possible. Buprenorphine in particular is a powerful painkiller, but it can also have a very doping, somnolent effect. You want your pet to be as comfortable as possible, but not so zonked out that he or she doesn’t even want to move, much less eat or drink. If your pig is acting like a zombie, or is acting as if he or she is still fully sedated, reduce the amount of narcotic."

Lisa12

Post   » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:18 pm


Thanks, Lynx. What Talishan wrote is very useful and i agree...

Because there are some chaos at Iries current vet..i also called some place else where is very kind(and its private clinic so its different)and experienced. Distance is half an hour, so:).
They say if i bring IRies here is absolutely no problem, if all goes well, they gladly send pigs home at evening, so:) We have some other option if we cancel and go to dermatologist and she recommend surgery, which is briliant news..

and i dont feel so hopless and dependend on one persons opinion and dont feel treated wierdly(but as i said IRies current vet is among two most experienced and other who was absolutely brilliant is not available since he left otherwise we would contact him, … )but yeah they re not so worried about people wishes, questions and they preferably keep animals on clinic it seems, they didnt, but now(but you could decline and i always declined in the past, i Will see if its working now this week)..so they watch them..its faculty clinic which is minus for animals, at least in my oppinion.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:09 pm


I hope all goes well with the surgery. Be sure to let us know!

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:28 am


I wish you the best, Lisa12. Good to hear you have some options for vet clinics and treatment.

Lisa12

Post   » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:35 am


Thank you so much, both for positive wishes!!!

I Will try to get vet on the phone wed-friday, hope he can manage 5minutes, if its not to much to ask, since he cancledme twice..I understand he is bussy,.. anyway, we Will know on friday for sure, if he goes on operation next week or to dermatologist and we Will write, here..:)

Lisa12

Post   » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:25 am


We re here again, sorry..

I ve read they use dossage 0,5mg/kg of Butropahnol..does it means something to you? And MEtacam 0,3 mg/kg I really dont get this calculation stuff.
So this is rat dossage but aint it the same just increased for pigs if its mg/kg, right..

We ll check out everything:)

Lisa12

Post   » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:26 am


i wanna be sure that this are lower dossage cause it can cause respiratory distress in higher

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:33 am


Your vet should know. We don't have specific recommendations for a medication if there is a range but common sense would aim toward the lower end of any drug that would depress the system.

Talishan is a member here. You could use the forum mailer and send her a question concerning the range she might suggest given her experience with the drug in her many guinea pigs.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:23 pm


According to Carpenter's Exotic Formulary (5th edition), the recommended dose of Butorphanol for guinea pigs is 1-2mg/kg, but this is a subcutaneous dose. There is no listing for oral Butorphanol. For rabbits, the SC dose is lower at 0.1-0.5 mg/kg.

On Metacam, the recommended range for guinea pigs is 0.1-0.3mg/kg.

Lisa12

Post   » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:41 am


Thanks, both, again!!

Sef, this is SC dose(0,5 for rats), i didnt write properly. Its for 380g rat.

Hm..if its for rabbits low at 0,5 than for pigs that is not very low if i get it?

But he used same dose for bird(im whatever that means). Its before anesthesia.(its one time thing).
I found this (Butorphanol 0.4-2 mg/kg, SC IM IP Yes 4-12 hrs (23, 24)-for guinea pigs.
Butorphanol 0.1-0.5 mg/kg IM SC IV Yes 4-6 hrs (1, 24) for rabits.
Source:
https://www.colorado.edu/researchinnovation/sites/default/fi ... ormulary.pdf

The our thing is, that this clinic have a experience vet as i stated, but communication is very difficult(i am not joking), i dont thing he would not know something or do something wrong and he knows Irie.
But I Will try to talk to him thursday morning. If I cant(we failed 2times), i think i would really have to check out oother option.
The reason i dont want to keep IRie over night are his bloating epizodes after taking of medication, which are Quite rare and severe compered with other pigs. SO if I cant get him home this is risking his life.(he stoped eating after only two dossages of Doxycyline, he doesnt tolerate Bactrim at all, he stopped eating after 4injections of BActrim(sc), but i dont know about metacam and this thing.

Idont wanna overcomplicate things i know hes feeling very good, but its logical cause of bordetella, asthma(not severe, but i am not impressed), age(4y.5m), stuffed nose, sneezing, discharge etc. is not as safe as other pigs..risk is bigger.
His tolerance on medication is as i wrote very lame. Even other vet who as i wrote was briliant said that unusual for pig.
Marbofloxacin (Marbocyl) was the only AB hetolerated..and azitromicyn with hand feeding and benebac.

His formation is getting bigger is 0,9cm now...and it was 0,45at the begining which is bad even if its benign.
Ringo was bleeeding from his tumor under tail Quite a lot..vet warned me, it wont be good if he started bleeding..well he did..we are just leaving be, cause of his age 15y.3m. and leavin things be aint no joke.
Besided he has glaucoma, cant walk around without Rheumocam(meloxicam) for severe back pain, he is incontinent, blind etc. It took me whole to take care of this..but his vets are way older than me, experienced, calm and kind.
Its unlikely with problems he has he Will live another year, if i cry every day or not.. and that would be naturally not euthanasia.
So..even if we fight with his all 4 paws and god knows how much pair of hands its always availible to help

Meanwhile i have to fight to get every information at iries vets, some of his assistants now are very Young(i think temporary only,but still), but he is
experienced at least. And he doesnt understand that i would literally do anything for Irie, but he doesnt need to. I can manage, whats the bestfor pig.

So both situations are tough call on me. Very. I am just like focus, do, focus, do..dont get tired, confused, worried, upset..whatever.

But Irie is thanking all for the positive vibes.. hope we can at least get him home and sort this out..otherwise there are other vetwho is
prepared for help but we dont know him yet and what anesthesia he uses he just said he is willing to give pig back to me on the same day. And he did this kind of operaton sucessfully on pigs, before.
If I can get him home same day(i sadly highly doubt, i ll let him be operatedon moneday)-

I dont know..sorry i have to let it out.. Thanks again, Sef, for the dossage
care of him..its hard, it requires constant vet helo

Lisa12

Post   » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:15 am


We ve got some news..

So, Irie wont be operated on moneday, cause he should stay overnight. With his gazillion of problems, I decided(as calmly as I can), we wont risk the surgery.

If anymore complication Will be with thing, we Will look for other options.

I am sorry, but its just the way life goes. I did so much for him and Ringo that it became too much for me, if you knw what i mean.

But lets be reasonable and this is it.

Thanks for reading our topic..it seems we wont have that much for an update!
Best regards,
I&T.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 pm


Have you completely ruled out the surgery? Or still waiting for the right vet?

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