Midnight's Medical Topic

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AviN4
Supporter in '21

Post   » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:36 pm


I have a slight concern about a pattern of weight loss I've been seeing in Midnight. He's lost around 7 oz over the past 3 months, including 4 oz over the past 1 month. Here is a chart of his weights over time:

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And here's the spreadsheet with the data.

And here's a photo of him. You can see his weight still looks normal, despite the weight loss.

Image

A few more details:
  • He is now 49 oz, the lowest weight I've seen him. The previous low was 50 oz, shortly after I adopted him. He has been as heavy as 57 oz at times.
  • I have not been as diligent as I should be in terms of weekly weighing. My weighings have typically ranged from once per week to once per month. I am now trying to do better.
  • He seems to be behaving normally and eating mostly normally. He and his brother Moon seem to be leaving over more green leaf lettuce than usual, but they seem to be eating bell peppers, pellets, and (I think) oat hay just fine.
  • He looks healthy physically. He's been a chubby boy for a while, and now he looks closer in body shape to Moon.
  • His diet has not changed significantly from here, though now I hand feed him carrots too as a treat.
  • A few weeks before his weight began declining, I accidentally tipped an almost full Midwest cage box onto him. I took him to an emergency vet (not specializing in guinea pigs) and they could not find any problem with him. This visit included x-rays, reviewed by a vet radiologist who specialized in exotics. (It was an expensive visit.) He behaved very frightened after that, but went back to normal a few days later.
  • I took him to his usual vet a month ago. The vet said he looked very healthy and saw no issues that concerned him. I have a positive impression of this vet in terms of his knowledge about guinea pigs, so I think he probably knows what to look for. I did not mention weight loss during this visit because the trend was not yet obvious.
Should I be concerned, or is this okay? Is there anything else I should do, other than resuming weekly weighings? At what point should I start being concerned?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:15 pm


Have you looked over the guidelines for evaluating condition/weight? They are kind of in the middle of this page (a veterinarian sent me these guidelines):
https://www.guinealynx.info/weigh.html

Are you noticing any teeth issues?
https://www.guinealynx.info/malocclusion.html

Any time you are especially worried about health, I would start a once-a-day weighing. 7 ounces is quite significant. As guinea pigs age, there is a tendency toward weight loss. I am sure you want to catch and identify any illness so he can be treated if needed.

I don't know that he would be considered an "Old Timer" (possibly - I think you got him as an adult about 3 years ago?) but Vicki of JPGPR had some general advice that could help.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 am


How old is he?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:11 pm


I forgot to add a link to Vicki's article on aging:

http://jpgpr.guinealynx.info/jpgpr400.html

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AviN4
Supporter in '21

Post   » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:41 pm


Lynx and bpatters, thanks for the helpful replies.

I'll start weighing him daily until the issue is resolved. I've created a recurring calendar event.

I've read the instructions under "Determining The Correct Weight For Your Guinea Pig." I followed the instructions about running my hands down through his body. I'm finding it difficult to assess his bumps. But he does not have very noticeable bumps, so I don't think he's underweight. I'd be surprised if he was underweight at this point, since he's always seemed on the chubby side, and even now is still ~10% heavier than his cagemate Moon who is comparable in length. Also, the vet did this same process a month ago and said his weight was fine.

I looked through the "Signs of Malocclusion" page. It's not obvious that his behavior fits any of the problematic signs. If I feed him carrots while he's in his cage, he eats them, and I don't see any of the signs listed. I saw him eat other foods earlier today, such as hay, though not as closely. I will try to watch him more closely, and could try some experiments, e.g. feeding him apple slices to see if he can eat the peel.

I made an attempt to get a photo of his incisors. I've been unable to open his mouth properly to see his top incisors, but I got a photo of his lower incisors by pulling his bottom lip down. They look straight and even, but long. Is this the problem? Has his bottom incisors overgrown?

Image

I tried looking at Moon's lower incisors for a comparison, but he's having a tough day and is resisting my attempts to get him out of the cage. I could try again tomorrow.

Also, the vet looked at his teeth a month ago and didn't see any issues. But (a) maybe the problem was less obvious a month ago and (b) the vet had difficulty seeing his molars with food in his mouth.

On his age: I don't know how old he is. As Lynx said, I adopted him 3 years ago as an adult. So I assume he's at least 3.5 years old. But it's possible he's much older than that. He also has some minor issues with both split nails and spurs (discussed earlier in this thread), which might be signs of age?

Thanks for the page on aging guinea pigs. I've read through it once, and will re-read it again more closely.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:45 pm


The incisors would be an issue if they interfered with closing his mouth, were substantially crooked, or the lower incisors touched the roof of the mouth. Each guinea pig has somewhat different teeth so looking at pictures of the incisors of one guinea pig that is healthy may not tell you much about your guinea pig.

You do very detailed record keeping! I suspect if an issue shows up, you will catch it.

The picture you posted above does not look problematic to me. And it sounds like his weight is decent. Is he lively? Does he get a lot of exercise? It always helps to have a cage mate to encourage exercise.

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AviN4
Supporter in '21

Post   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:35 pm


Thanks for the feedback on Midnight's teeth. I'm glad to hear you don't see an obvious problem with the photo.

Midnight and his cagemate Moon wander around in their cage between eating and naps. Years ago I would try to persuade them to leave their cage for floor time. However, to this day, they will not leave unless forced, either by moving all of their hideouts outside, or by physically removing the guinea pigs. I cannot not even persuade them with carrots, their favorite treat. Since they do not want to leave their cage, I decided I would not force them. So that limits the exercise they are getting.

They are both housed in a Midwest 8 sq ft cage. This was the best I could do in my previous tiny apartment (230 sq ft). Maybe I could get them a larger C&C cage now though.

I do have the vague impression that Midnight has become more active than he was previously, but it might just be wishful thinking on my part, to explain why he's losing weight.

One thing I did not mention is that I moved apartments at the end of April 2021. Maybe something about the new apartment has changed his activity level or eating habits? There's also the injury that happened at the same time (box fell on him), but as I noted above, none of the vets could find anything physically wrong with him (in neither April nor July) and he seems to have recovered fine behaviorally.

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AviN4
Supporter in '21

Post   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:35 pm


Also: I fed Midnight apples for the first time today. He seems to like it and seems able to eat the peel just fine.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:24 pm


Sounds like his teeth should not be an issue. If after a week his weight seems to have stabilized at this new, lower weight, you could switch to a standard weekly weighing. Weighing regularly is such a good way (besides observation) to monitor health!

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AviN4
Supporter in '21

Post   » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:29 pm


I've been weighing Midnight (almost) daily for the past 12 days and his weight has been stable. So it seems like he's probably fine.

I'll try to be diligent about weekly weighings moving forward.

Thanks for the advice and support. :)

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:35 pm


And thanks for your support!

Weighing regularly and being observant make all the difference. Hopefully both Midnight and Moon will enjoy a fair amount of good health!

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AviN4
Supporter in '21

Post   » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:51 pm


Although Midnight's weight seemed stable for a few weeks, it's now declining again. This is for the past 5 months or so.

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Spreadsheet here.

I ran out of KMS pellets (out of stock) a week ago and that may be a contributing factor. I switched them to Oxbow which they don't seem to like. Today I started giving them Sweet Meadow which they seem to like better.

I also notice they have been leaving over more of their veggies, though I'm not sure when this started.

Is it time to schedule a vet appointment? The earliest appointment I can get at my normal vet (who I think is good) is 1 month from now.

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