Nibbles Medical Thread

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:11 pm


That is fabulous news! Yes, anything you can do to prevent the formation of more stones or ease the passing of hopefully tiny stones is good.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:26 pm


Very good news indeed! We have discussion thread in Cavy Chat on Shilintong, as it looks like the original brand that many of us have purchased in the past has been discontinued. Where did you buy yours?

As far as diet, a number of us here who have had guinea pigs with bladder stones over the years have come to suspect a possible correlation between the calcium carbonate in most (but not all) commercial guinea pig pellets and stone formation. What brand do you use?

Otherwise, cutting excess calcium in the diet in general could help reduce sludge, and keeping her well hydrated and active may also help prevent sludge and stones in the future. As you said, though, some guinea pigs are just more prone to this problem than others.

Good luck and thanks for the update!

IssaG

Post   » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:21 pm


I did see that other thread and posted where I got mine. https://shenclinic.com/search?q=shilintong It was the same packaging as the one my vet showed me so that's why I went with it. I'm very relieved though less excited about having to give a supplement every day for basically ever.

As for pellets, I feed Oxbow adult, Essentials I think (the red package) and that started about 6 weeks ago. The guinea are both about 8-10 months old now. Have you seen any problems with this pellet?

Outside of corn husks, the recommendations are all technically fruits: cucumber, pepper, apple, banana, etc. So thoughts on introducing a small piece of something different once a week or every other week, like a small piece of lettuce or something?

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:35 pm


There is a page on diet that may be useful to you here:
https://www.guinealynx.info/diet.html

Also:
https://www.guinealynx.info/fave.html

For what it's worth, this is a 'diet' I used back when so many of our guinea pigs were ending up with bladder stones, and I was trying to strike a balance between a relatively good variety of vegetables and foods too high in calcium:

Image

I can't say that anything dietary has made much of a difference, honestly, although I still avoid pellets containing calcium carbonate. Oxbow pellets originally contained that as the calcium source, but they later changed the formula. I also do not feed iceberg or romaine lettuces, both of which were on my original list. Iceberg is too watery with no nutritional value, and romaine has caused calcium deposits in many of our guys.

IssaG

Post   » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:26 pm


That list is awesome! Thank you. I want to change things up a bit for Nibbles every once and a while so this helps.

IssaG

Post   » Fri May 17, 2019 7:24 pm


How often did those of you who had stone formers actually form stones? Nibbles acts like she's getting a stone every month. She'll be fine then all of a sudden quiet, hiding in a corner. I'll give her pain medication for several days, then she is fine again. Then it starts all over. I give the supplement 1x day but move to 2x when she's feeling bad. I've now decided to keep her on 2x to see if it makes any difference.

Her weight is unchanged; I weigh them weekly. Only one time have I found visible blood in her urine. I'm not ready to take her into the vet yet as we have her yearly appointment in August. When she's feeling fine she's completely normal. I'd say her painful time is a week max, usually more like 4 or 5 days. She's on a low calcium diet. I've been giving Oxbow pellets but have some from KMS that I'm introducing. She only gets cucumber, tomato, pepper, banana (to mash the supplement in), a little melon rind.

Is this simply our new normal? She a little less than a year old so we have a lot of this ahead if that is the case.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat May 18, 2019 7:26 am


This does not sound normal. I am sorry she seems to be developing so many stones.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat May 18, 2019 2:45 pm


Stone formation/recurrence really just varies from pig to pig. Our Zachary (my sweet little avatar pig) developed not only stones in his bladder but also in both ureters. They were aggressive, fast-forming stones and sadly there was not much we could do about it. Andrew was another one who had fast-growing stones. He had back-to-back stones surgeries in the span of a couple of months and when a third stone developed right away, we had to make the decision to end his suffering. On the other hand, we had a male (Sebastian) who lived with a good-size bladder stone and presented no signs of it whatsoever. We never even knew he had it until x-rays for an unrelated issue revealed it. We currently have another male, Amos, who seems to be forming and passing small stones periodically, and has undergone several rounds of Bactrim for secondary UTIs associated with it.

Unfortunately, some guinea pigs just seem prone to manufacturing stones and there doesn't seem to be a diet or supplement that does much to prevent it. It's good that she's passing the stone(s), though. I would think/hope that the Shilintong would help with some of the pain and inflammation, but it seems to be hit-and-miss from what I've seen.

I don't know if this would be worth trying or not, but Fuzzies Kingdom does make a so-called "bladder stone" formula (it's not on the website; you have to email Tanya and specifically ask for it) that *seems* to be helping our Amos somewhat so far. I ordered a bag of it last month and give him a small daily amount. I'm normally not that big on herbals, but it seems like it **might** help him pass the stone(s), which is something none of our past male guinea pigs were able to do.

IssaG

Post   » Mon May 20, 2019 7:08 pm


Well she was back to normal this weekend. She even gained some weight. It's so nice having her back to her normal loud, annoying self : ) I'll keep her on the two supplements a day and see if that stretches out the timing or makes any other difference. I AM glad she appears to be consistantly passing the stones, so it sounds like she might be like your little boy Sef who had fast growing stones. So I'm hoping the supplement is helping her pass them though we'll never know for sure since she started on it right when she had her first painful stone.

I do agree that the restricted diet isn't doing a thing to prevent stones. Maybe it keeps them smaller, who knows, but I don't believe the hype on the low calcium diet anymore. Her cage mate who is mostly on the same restrictions for ease, though she does get lettuce and carrots when she's out by herself, has not had problems. So I'm not going to feel bad giving Nibbles a bit of lettuce here or there.

Sef, thanks for sharing your experience with stones. It helps keep things in perspective. We'll keep going on our current path but if there is no change I'll look into that bladder stone formula. I'd like to have more data on the current regimen first.

IssaG

Post   » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:50 pm


She had her annual exam last week. The vet felt her abdomen then pressed on the bladder to empty it. Nibbles gave her annoyed sound, but not her pain sound, and the vet was pleased that there was no pain, no evidence of stones or sludge, and that it took the right amount of pressure to force the bladder to empty.

I told her we had to keep Nibbles at two tablets per day, not just one, otherwise she acted off. The vet speculates that the muscles of her bladder don't work correctly and that's why she is uncomfortable when she's only on one tablet or no tablets. The urine doesn't empty properly and that build up contributes to the stone formation. The tablets let those muscles relax so she can empty the bladder.

So good that we have a treatment that works and that's she's not forming hundreds of stones. And I'm even less concerned about giving her things occasionally that are not on her prescribed diet.

So crossing fingers that this is the worst we'll have to see in her.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:37 pm


I'm glad you are having success.

What tablets is she getting, again? Shilintong?

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:16 pm


That is very good news! I think you did mention Shilintong somewhere along the way. Can you remind us how you are dosing it?

Fingers crossed!

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