Guinea pig losing fur and messy bottom

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amyfw

Post   » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:35 pm


For whatever reason, the multiple vets I have consulted at Cornell all seem to go against most of the advice on this site. In fact, they often don’t seem to be aware of the meds or dosing or procedures that I see mentioned time and time again on here. That is not to take anything away from them. It just makes it hard. I just tend to believe that they don’t actually see that many guinea pigs. For example, when they put her on doxy they said they don’t usually use it on exotics and said she might not handle it well. On this site it is listed as one of 4 drugs for guinea pigs. I would go to a more experienced exotics vet but these are supposed to be the experts so I really don’t know what to do.

The ureter stones were gone in her last ultrasound so she was able to pass them. The other stones they felt were small enough to also pass on their own and they have. She may have stones again but after 4 ultrasounds we (vets) stopped checking because it did not alter the outcome of her treatment. I asked about surgery or flushing her out or expressing the sludge and all of those were met with a huge NO either because it could flush the stones back in the bladder, or would be painful to her. I read about it being done all the time on here so I really don’t get the disconnect in treatment options.

Anyway, her appetite is good (not on baytril, she drops weight like crazy in that but we try to avoid baytril for her as much as we can) she is happy and content. Her (neutered) son is her cage mate and I am working to keep both of them healthy and chugging along for each other. I worry about his well being if she were to pass and vice versa.

I saw the link of the proin. That’s the first time I saw that drug mentioned and I actually took that info to Cornell to ask about getting it for Butterscotch. They have never used it in a gp and so I wanted to follow up and see if anyone had ever tried it or if there were other things I should be trying.

Not sure if I answered all the questions....

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:22 am


You're not the first person who's taken a guinea pig to Cornell and gotten advice contrary to that of most other exotic vets. I can't remember the other people involved, but if you search the medical forum for "Cornell" you'll turn up some threads. I've wondered before if their exotic staff actually has much experience with guinea pigs.

amyfw

Post   » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:13 pm


Interesting. They are supposed to be the best in the country.

I have no one else to use. Every vet in town is Cornell trained and educated. I have seen other vets to consult with them on this issue and they refuse the stone surgery and sludge removal as well.

I have no idea what else to do for her.

I just got the test results for her urine back. She has two new strains of bacteria causing her infection. So, her infection is chronic but the actual bacteria chasing the infection has now changes 5 times. How you can get an infection while you are on continuous antibiotics is a mystery to me.

The thought is if we can use proin (formerly propalin syrup) to stop her dribbling and keep her dry she will not get any further infections. I am worried that if she has a stone she won’t be able to peel it out though on the proin or that it will cause serious illness or worse.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:35 pm


Does she have urine scald also? Your situation does sound frustrating. Have you tried increasing fluids by syringing water?

What are the bacteria strains? Do you know what antibiotics they are sensitive to? What kind of bedding do you use? Is she a long haired guinea pig?

amyfw

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:08 pm


Lynx,

I work very very VERY hard to prevent urine scald. She has had it off and on during this. Mostly just fur loss in those areas, no wounds. She does now have bumblefoot because of it. Being treated with silver cream 2x a day plus daily baths and diaper cream for her skin.

I have tried both sub a fluids at Cornell (daily, then every other day then once a week) for the first month but it did t help. I do daily fluids orally now just to keep her hydrated plus wet lettuce and Cukes for the fluids.

The bacteria has changed. I am going to get them wrong but the first was corona something and then trouperella and now two new ones. I didn’t even bother with their names honestly. All of them are supposed to be susceptible to TMS but she has been on TMS 2x a day continuously since the end of January (and correct dose for weight) with no improvement and during this time has always shown signs of a uti (wet and leaky, excessive urine in cage, excessive thirst) which is why I was willing to try new things like D’Mannose and other herbal things to try to flush her out.

She is on fleece bedding with the 2 layers of uhaul pads but I have tried UK vetbed and also guineadad fleece with bamboo just to see if the bedding was somehow infected.

Cornell’s theory is that she is incontinent which causes leaking. Sitting in or near urine causes the bad bacteria to grow and then re enter her urinary tract thus causing an infection. Before they suggested that all the sludge could be harboring the bacteria as well since antibiotics can not penetrate non living things (sludge being non living) but she passed all but a tiny bit of sludge.

Lately I have been reading about bio colonies and bacterial uti colonies in humans and it’s terrifying but also possible that’s what we are dealing with. It’s just hard to determine what will help if anything and to know if she is comfortable and ok throughout all of this.

I am sure I don’t need to explain to this crowd that with bimonthly cultures and ultrasounds that we are in the several thousands of dollars for treatment this year and it’s just frustrating that we can’t find an answer for it.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:41 pm


Do you use a little bleach when you wash the fleece? Do you change it frequently? I was just considering whether the bedding could hold the bacteria and be involved in reinfection.

I am sorry she is having all these problems. You are so diligent!

amyfw

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:49 pm


I do not use bleach. I was afraid that would ruin the fleece or wash away it’s color. I use vinegar though and wash it 3 times before drying. I am happy to try bleach if you think it will work.

I change the cage in full every 5 days and change out the pee pads she is on and the kitchen area every day. Sometimes twice per day.

The fleece seems to be very quick wicking which is good but she often lays in her hay and hay seems to be terrible at absorbing. I change the hay out at least 3 times per day, often 4 times.

I stay at home full time so I am able to give meds, force feed when needed, and change her bedding at all hours. I need to remind myself that I have kept her going with a pretty good quality of life (there were a few times in there that were touch and go) but mostly all positive for 6 months which is a long time in piggie years.

I still wish I could find something to help though. I may try the proin syrup and see if that works. The hope is that if she dries up then the meds can kill all the bacteria sitting in her bladder and she can be free of the uti.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:39 pm


Fleece is nearly indestructible, and the color goes all the way through the fiber. You won't hurt it at all by using bleach on it.

amyfw

Post   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:28 pm


Anyone know how to post pics? I want to post one of butterscotch and caramel baby as well as their cage set up so you can let me know if you see anything of alarm that could be causing the uti.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:13 pm


There are directions for posting pics in the Feedback forum and I think also in the FAQ (see link above left). You find a site like imgur to host them and then post a link to the pics.

The bleach would be very diluted. It is extremely effective at killing bacteria. If the fleece had an odor, that would be an indicator of bacteria present that was not removed by simple washing.

amyfw

Post   » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:17 pm


I am going to try bleach this week and see if it helps. Thanks all. I am a,so starting the proin tomorrow and will let you know if it helps or not.

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Renonvsparky

Post   » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:42 am


Reading through this and I must say that you are dealing with a lot of issues with this guinea pig. All I can say is stick with it. One thing you said that has me thinking was about the floor time. Do you just put her down on the open floor and let her have the run of the room if she chooses or is there some kind of enclosure? I ask because piggies are known to freeze in one spot if they feel insecure. Also is there some place she can hide in or play in? A fleece forrest or a tunnel is effective for both purposes. Do you have toys and things in with her? Little stuffies work. Even something as minor as a crumpled up piece of paper or a small block of wood can get their curiosity up.

My boar, Mr Bubbles was a non mover due to being overweight, but we started small with the crumpled up piece of paper. He bumped it around with his nose at first and later on decided to pick it up, flip it over his head and then go get it to do it again. We started adding other things like his tunnel, fleece forrest Eventually he got to where he runs around and plays. The best thing is the fleece forrest. All 4 of mine love it. You can buy one or it's not too hard to make one. It provides endless hours of fun for them. I think the feeling of the strips of fleece running along their body is amusing to them. They also love the security it provides.

I know your piggie has heart issues so she can't really run, but getting her to move around even a little bit should help with her weight and possibly help strengthen her heart. I would start small by making sure she feels secure on the floor and giving her the crumpled up paper just to see what she does. That or a little stuffie that is smaller than her, but not too small.

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