Four year old losing weight (big thread inside)

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Squiggles

Post   » Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:30 am


Hello. I'm from guineapigcages, and I was wondering if anyone has any advice since I've exhausted all my options. If you don't mind, I'm going to post everything I've posted in the other thread, minus the replies.

6/29/22- My pig just turned four in May and has been losing weight constantly. He used to be a big pig at about 1300grams, but now he' has dropped drastically. I have taken him repeatedly to the vet (it is a cavy savy one, Dr. Dewey at Veterinary Center for Birds & Exotics) and he has been through every test from bloodwork, to ultrasounds to check for cancers or tumors, to echocardiograms, and he has no issues other than slight regurgitation of the heart, but they did not recommend any medication.

I am at a loss of what to do. I give him critical care with his breakfast every morning and do have to separate him and his brother during feeding time since the other is a bully with food (his weight is no problem, in fact, he has become heavier when he was the smaller of the two). Dr. Dewey feels it’s just him aging, but the dropping is really worrying me. Is there anything else I can do to put weight on him? Thanks in advance.

I'm going to eliminate how I separated the two because I thought that was the problem, and just get into the vet stuff.


7/14/22- He was a bit better at the vet. When I weighed him the other night, he was 810g, he was 856. She gave him fluids since it's hot out and he was running a fever, but then he dropped back to normal after fluids and being in a cage with ice towels. She did a full blood panel again, at my request, but they are focusing on the free t4 to see if he is hyperthyroid. She did put him back on gabapentin because he does have early arthritis, and she feels when he was on that, he was maintaining his weight at 950-1000 grams (he used to be 1200+ about a year ago). The only other option is, if this all comes back negative, is that, even though it is mild enlargement of his heart, high blood pressure medicine. Which I can't believe guinea pigs can be on that.


He did not stay on gabapentin long since he didn't want to eat after it. 7/15/22- T4 came back negative. She did say his liver values were a little elevated, so she's beginning to think it might be liver/GI related, so they might start him on B12 injections, and she did recommend acupuncture.

He continues to drop and when the next appointment comes, He was 810 on the vet scale, but mine said 785. He had his first acupuncture session along with B12 in some of the needles. He is also now starting milk thistle with an extremely small dose.

8/18/22- He had his session B12 acupuncture yesterday along with a cleaning since I saw a small clump in his cage the other night (he was pretty clean) along with a gram stain (came back normal). Now I have a question. Has anyone heard of DMG (Dimethylglycine)? She wants to try to start him on that next time, but I'm not too sure, so I figured I'd ask if anyone here has heard or even had a trial with that? He's still getting milk thistle 0.05 two times a day.

9/1/22- An update, and it's not good. I last weighed him a week or so ago and he was dropping rapidly. Last I saw was 749, so I stopped weighing him until he went to the vet today. She said it's the most she's seen him drop. He was 725, but that's not the worse. There's now a mass that has appeared in his neck. One that wasn't there with any of his vet checks. He also started making a noise like a monkey, so I thought he had something caught in his throat, but now that she found the mass, it's starting to appear to be thyroid. She did another full body ultra sound and took cells from the mass, and they're sending it out to see if it's cancer or whatnot. He also redid the T4 to see for sure if the thyroid is going to read now. (She called Saturday, T4 was negative again)

She's so surprised and upset that it took this long to appear, but if he turns out to have cancer and it's going to be a lot of work to remove it, and he's already severely underweight, I don't want to put him through the trauma and would give him the quality of life. I hope it's not, but I'm not looking at a positive outcome. He’s still on the milk thistle, but now he’s also on Metacam. I'm really afraid of the results, but they're leaning toward cancer, but why would it take so long, (I've been taking him since October of last year and nothing ever came up). He eats and drinks with no problem, he walks around, goes up and down his ramp, but he seems tired a lot and sad, and that noise that appeared does not help.


I apologize for the long post, but just wondering if anyone has any insight. Thank you.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:21 pm


I'm sorry your guinea pig is so ill. Bpatters is also a member here (and moderator) and if she has given you advice over there, pay close attention to it (she knows more than I do).

You never mentioned hand feeding. Have you done so?

Sounds like at this point, you are waiting for the results from the biopsy of the lump. Weight loss is often related to dental, heart, thyroid issues - it sounds like you have explored all these? The teeth too?
https://www.guinealynx.info/malocclusion.html

Let us know what you hear concerning the lump. It sounds like the biopsy will give you some answers.

Squiggles

Post   » Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:15 pm


Yes, her and Guinea Pig Papa, I always seek their advice. Feeding is no problem, but I do give him two sets of Emeraid (he loves it. I at first did critical care, but it was just a struggle to get him to take it). So he gets two 6 ml syringes in the morning where I give him his first dose of milk thistle and then his metacam, and then he gets his 1/4 cup of pellets for the day and his lettuce breakfast. The other two syringes are at night before he has his dinner which is a mix of many vegetables. He eats with no problem.

His teeth have been checked multiple times and she said they're fine, and other than a slight enlargement of his heart, they said it was fine as well. Hopefully Tuesday they will have an answer, though, I am really dreading what is coming. But I can't get over that for a year I checked him, even with ultrasounds, and this never appeared until now. Dr. Dewey is also very stumped and feels horrible.

Thanks, Lynx.

Squiggles

Post   » Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:00 pm


The dreaded call came. They believe he has some hyper thryoid on some areas, but she is leaning toward thyroid carcinoma. And the option for that in surgery to remove the mass. I'm worried he might not survive it because he's already way underweight. The other option would be to medicate him for the hyperthyroid, but she doesn't know how he will respond to that. I am waiting for her to send me the notes from our phone conversation so I can write a more detailed reply, but I did ask her to reach out to an oncologist to see what their opinion is. She said it's been a long time since she had a guinea pig owner ask for the request, but if I can help him without making it worse, I want to see what I can do.

I'm so puzzled how this just popped up when I've been taking him for over a year to see what was causing the weight loss.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:57 pm


Sounds serious. If there was a mass growing slowly, you might not have seen it until now.

It is so hard to know what to do with one of these small pets. I hope the oncologist can advise your vet and the two of you have a better idea of what might work. That he is way underweight is very worrisome.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:58 am


I'm so sorry for this worrisome news. Please let us know what you find out. His weight is definitely a consideration where invasive surgery is concerned.

Squiggles

Post   » Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:28 am


I feel like I'm backed into a corner. As much as I love this vet, I think she might be a bit inexperienced with pigs (more rabbits) because when we discussed surgery, she said she had never done it before, but she can if I requested and that was the solution. This makes me a bit iffy. Not to mention, it's not 100 percent if he has this. It's "leaning toward" but not fully known. I know it's highly not recommended, but I'm going to take him to my usual vet. One of the ones I see does exotics and has his own exotics and has done surgery on them as well. I'm curious of his opinion. I just want what best option because I don't want to snuff his life when he's still very active most of the time and extremely hungry and wheeking for his food.

It's so frustrating, and very upsetting.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2023

Post   » Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:19 pm


The hunger and weight loss really sound like overactive thyroid - those are classic symptoms in people anyway. I think if you have a good rapport with a trusted vet clinic, get an opinion and see what they have to say. I hope you can find a solution.

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Tracy

Post   » Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:24 pm


You may be able to start with thyroid medication. Also, I half remember (when my Inca had a thyroid mass and lost weight) that they benefit from medication before surgery, if you decide to proceed with that. That way animal's metabolism would adjust a bit before dealing with the mass, which changes things very quickly. I will find Inca's post and add a link here, might be helpful.

Squiggles

Post   » Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:07 pm


@Tracy that would be great. Thank you. I've spent half the day crying because I don't know what to do. He has an appointment with my usual vet, not the exotic on Tuesday, but today he looked so sad and weak that I felt horrible. He still walks around, he even went through his hoop in his playpen which I have him in right now to try to give him a break, and he's still eating with no problem. The weight loss is getting worse, he's probably easily in the 600s now, I'm afraid to look, and he's still making that noise slightly.

The exotic vet wrote this back yesterday, and there's no way I can put him through this trauma.

As we discussed, Tivlet's cytology showed "epithelial neoplasia, consistent with thyroid". I did reach out to an oncologist and they recommended that a CT scan be performed of the neck and lungs to see if the mass is removable and to check for spread to the lungs. If it is removable they recommended surgery and submitting the mass for histopathology to get a definitive diagnosis of whether it is adenoma or carcinoma. If it not resectable they radiation therapy may be an option. This typically requires multiple session under anesthesia and may be done with palliative or curative intent, depending on what the radiation oncologist thinks. This may not be possible through us as it depends on if the radiation oncologist we work with is willing to do this on a guinea pig or not. Finally, we could perform nuclear scintigraphy to further evaluate the mass. We could also potentially try oral medication to help control the weight loss, though I can't say if that will work or what side effects Tivlet may experience.

Please let me know if you're interested in a CT scan or surgery and I can work on estimates for that. We would not be able to perform these ont he same day as we send out our imaging results to be read.

I like the exotic vet, but I mentioned above why I'm iffy. I know my usual vet is going to tell me the truth so I trust what he's going to say.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:35 pm


I like Tracy's suggestion of at least starting some thyroid medication - it might slow/stop or even turn around the weight loss.

I am so sorry this is so stressful for you and likely your guinea pig also. Hugs to you.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:55 am


Ditto, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I agree that I might at least try the medication if that's an option. I wouldn't put a 600 gram guinea pig through surgery. Invasive procedures are hard enough on their little bodies, but one that is not generally thrifty is an even poorer surgical candidate, at least in my own personal experience. I'll be interested to hear what your vet has to say, though.

Please do keep us posted.

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